Monday, February 26, 2007

Otaku

Re:Speaking of BESM media,(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.27 3:59 (#18156576) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.27 3:13)
Ok, let me see..
Otaku means originally the polite way of refering to 'home'. It connotes clandestine, introverted male who is only in pursuit of their own realm of interest. Their common image is those who wear a strong near-sighted spectacles with black plastic frame, a slightly upwarded front teeth, thick lips with spotted pink speckles, with a magnifying lense attached camera hinged by long strings from their neck, wearing short wrinkled trousers, their legs are O shaped.
Of course they have neither girlfriends nor have courage to say hello to young girls healthifully. Instead they like to sleep with the photos of idles who wear a particular costumes like those of stewardess, nurse, maid. Their sexual activities are done own their own, or they feel satisfied with peeping, transvestism, fetishism instead of an ordinary act.
Those people are called 'Otaku', negatively, pejoratively, and derisively.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Sunday, February 25, 2007

Priceless

Re:Rational and Good(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.26 1:59 (#18143840) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.24 1:38)
This is a very important point that I oughtn't to forget. You made me recall the signifcance of reason that has been playing a decisive role in not only Western culture but all humans too. Always I admire, remember my sig --Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters, those who devote themselves to the endless endeavour toward the expansion of reason. That's also one of the main reasons you are my priceless friend.
Thanks.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Yeah

Re:as others have pointed out(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.26 1:38 (#18143662) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.24 1:38)
You are correct, speaking more precisely.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

!

Re:dreams(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.26 0:45 (#18143258) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.24 1:38)
Oh, your dreams are very realistic!
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Friday, February 23, 2007

Subject TurnsTo Object

Re:Dreams(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.24 3:28 (#18125414) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.24 1:38)
What amazed me is you have a good memory for the dreams you had even 20 years ago.
My suggestion as to the interpretation of dreams is in dreams everything is opposite to the incident in our real world. Subject turns to object and vice versa. In a dream I am chased and I fly, I am free from the chaser. My interpretation is I chase and chase but never get the prey, instead I fell into the deep mire. This is the situation in reality.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

M, MH & I

M, MH & I (Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.24 0:46 (#18123054) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.22 1:33)
I remember I saw this title in Sam's journals, I thought he was writing about 'Me, Marxist Hacker & I'. You adopted his topics as your own, now I can read it perfectly as Me, Marxist Hacker &I
Me, Marxist Hacker & I are three attributes that consist of trinity. I assume you are playing the role of God behind the three masks you wear.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Thursday, February 22, 2007

The Reality Of Word

Re:Root of Irrationality(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.23 2:40 (#18110630) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.22 1:33)
Word is not an absolute ruler. Suppose when I said in front of my girlfriend that' I love you', all I meant was 'I love her, up till then'. But she thought 'I love her, for the rest of my life'. So when I said good-bye to her after I said I love her, she can't blame me for my saying previously that I love her.
Word is not absolute but just a convenient tool, to back our idea at the moment we utter.
Rational is the term in logics. If it's consistent, we say it's rational. Good or bad is the term to measure a moral value. Rational things ought to be morally good, probably. But the real world we live is very different from this theoretical ideal. I suggest you try to interpret any word in the context. Any same word is used very differently. The word in language is not the same as the sign in mathematics.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Wednesday, February 21, 2007

Dietary

Re:I'm not a buddhist(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.22 3:33 (#18098934) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.22 1:33)
Japanese people hadn't eaten any meat of animals because of this belief. But fish were OK to have. These dietaries contributed to our mean physique greatly.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Morosoph Cocktail

Re:Root of Irrationality(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.22 1:18 (#18096874) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.21 3:47)
I've just missed Morosoph cocktail.
We can think things through language, it's counterproductive for us to think what word is proper to refer to what I meant. What I was trying to mean was not what the difinition of words is, but rather something that can be explained by words.
Again 'rational' has nothing to do with moral value -'good'. Please try to think first what my word meant. You are thinking what is the proper word for my idea. If you noticed what I meant by my words, please make a comment on what you think I meant.
So do you know any 'rational' things which are supposed to be 'good'? I was unable to find anything.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Reality & Religion

Re:None of the above(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.22 0:23 (#18096074) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.21 3:47)
I understand how you perceive things differently from other ordinary people and you know as well. This is very different from other autistic people. Because often autistic people insist only their world view is correct and that of ordinary people is wrong. As long as you notice your difference you are also a part of ordinary people since ordinary people perceive things differenly among themselves. All perceptions vary depending on each individuals.
Certainly your perception is unique. Just try to adopt similar perception with others, then you can adjust by degrees.
My original question was ' Which do you prefer to live, in reality or in religion? In real world people share common reality with others. So in order to get along with others in reality, you need to share similar reality, not to say exactly the same. That's what we've been doing in our daily life. But in religion you don't have to share similar reality. But you must share only one belief, or faith in other words, that is where religion stands.
If you can share this belief even if you can't share common reality with others, you can succeed in living in religion. So theoretically there's no problem as to your being religious even if you are autistic as long as you have this belief, or faith.
Judging from your original post, you are pessimistic about living both in reality and in religion. Here's your choice. You choose to live in reality by trying to adjust yourself to how other non-autistic people behave, or you choose to live in religious world by accepting only one belief, which no one can verify. Therefore you can believe without hindrance. I have been seeing many renegades who were refused by society in the first place are often accepted warmly in religion later on. But my recommendation for you is that you had better try to promote in your real life first. I think you can succeed. Religion is the last resort for those who lost something in real life.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Tuesday, February 20, 2007

Questions

Re:Irrational? Or misunderstood?(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.21 2:57 (#18084048) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.21 1:53)
My questions are
Are Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego resurrected? Was Jona saved from the stomach of big fish? Why similar Gospels have to be written three times?
I'm reading books of minor prophets. I read four Gospels at age 15. I will resume reading from Acts soon.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

So

Re:Root of Irrationality(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.21 2:19 (#18083340) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.21 1:53)
Your assumption is firmly based on human knowledge. It is irrational for us to decide whether creator exists, therefore I said that religion is based on this irrationality. This irrationality has nothing to do with the nonexistence of creator.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Believing In Nothing

Re:so if they're both irrational(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.21 0:43 (#18082072) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.20 23:31)
This is a matter of comparison. Nietzsche wrote in his 'genealogy of morals' that people prefer believing in nothing than not believing in anything.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

To Be Autistic

Re:None of the above(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.21 0:37 (#18081974) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.20 23:31)
Is it the symptom of autism that you can't share the common reality with others? If so, autistic people are secular by birth.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Thursday, February 15, 2007

Son Of Men

Re:Ooh! Me! Me! Me!(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.16 0:45 (#18024310) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.15 23:34)
I think there's still a very long way to go till being called the anti-Christ from just disputing whether his is a son of God. I think he was often called a son of men, because he was born to human parents. When Herod asked him whether he's a son of God, he didn't say yes, instead he says 'as you said so'. This matter only depends on how we think, not how he thought.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

As To Anti-Christ

Re:Probably an issue of context(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.16 0:24 (#18023956) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.15 23:34)
I guess you understand what I was driving at.
You see if anti-Christ means as the woman told, there might be too many anti-Christ. Those who do not believe Christianity are almost automatically 'anti-Christ'. In Judaist belief they are still waiting for the advent of Christ. Even among Christendom, those who believe trinity won't accept that Christ would be a son of God, but rather a God himself. In short 'anti-Christ' ought have been used in very limited way as the anti-Christ, or an anti-Christ.
Assuming from what you taught me, she would have been talikng about being anti-Christ.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Eureka

Re:as others have pointed out(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 3:43 (#18014622) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
Pre-Roman times kind of Celtic languages were widely spoken throughout Europe, including those of British isles. Insular Celtic languages known as Gaelic are still spoken long after Continental Celtic languages known as Gaulish extinguished circa 2nd AD. So it was not surprising the language of Brittany resembles Brythons, that is one of the Insular Celtic languages.
Now I was able to find another difference in Gael and Gaul.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

History Of Okinawa

Re:Interesting(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 2:44 (#18013880) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
You see, he's joking. If so Io-Wa, even Wa-shington has to follow the case. Okinawa was located far beyond the route former Koreans took on the way to Japan.
Okinawans came from the South, similar to the people in Micronesia. Their origin was similar to the early setllers in Japan proper prior to the former Korean's arrival. Later in 1372, Okinawa became a tribute of China. In 1609 it became a tribute of Japan.
It was only after 1879 that Okinawa lost its independence after being annexed by Japanese.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Backwards

Re:as others have pointed out(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 2:15 (#18013504) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
Yeah, everything was backwards.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Nightmare

Re:Actually, according to your linked article:(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 2:07 (#18013390) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
History of Brittany started circa 5 AD after Saxons deplaced inhabitants in Great Britain to Brittany. I misunderstood the flag was as early as the history of Brittany. The flag was invented after the Stars and Stripes. That explains the strikinig similarities.
My findings once in a century tuned to just a dream, or just a scene in my nightmare.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Out Of The Question

Re:You've got it backwards(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 1:28 (#18012760) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
I see. I didn't read till the end. I deliberately didn't because I wanted to write an article as I assumed, which is out of the question. Thanks for letting me know.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

The Day After

Re:Yes but(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.15 1:00 (#18012358) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.14 4:07)
People who reside in small islands off the peninsula became the first intruders to Japan proper. There were three main tribes -Hayato(Falcon)who resided in southern Kyushu, Kumaso(Bear)who resided in the middle of Kyushu, Emishi(Frog)who resided in the northern part of Japan. Interestingly their names were allotted in animal's names, somehow contemptuous. As you noticed, Emishi(Ainu) was the most powerful tribe. Ainu means humans in Ainu language.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Loosen The Rope

Re:I thought the Kahn(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.14 1:01 (#17997938) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.12 4:46)
Tonight it's very stormy. When typhoon comes, fishermen lifts the anchor and loosen the rope that connects the ship and land. Their ships are floating in the middle of the bay, but each ship never collide themselves. Thus their ships are safe. This is a basic knowledge for fishermen.
Yes, two times they came here.
It was 1274 when their first invasion took place. 50,000 Mongolians, Chinese, Koreans combined and 700-800 vessels. The number of Japanese counterpart was 130,000. They heard the smaller islands off Japan proper were totally devastated by Mongolians, so they were able to be well-prepared. Mongolians ought to have invaded Japan proper first directly. Just one day after the landing, they retreated to their ships in spite of their initial victory. The battlefield was unknown to them, so they retreated lest they should be attacked by Japanese. The same night they were struck by strong storm. One-third of ships were sunk. They flew away back to Korea.
Second invasion took place in 1281. Their force was 142,000 soldiers and 4,400 ships. This time 80% of all their ships were sunk before landing because of the storm.
They fastened all their vessels, small and big, when they had typhoon in the bay. This was completely opposite to what Japanese did in their ships.
The victory of Japan was basically brought by the lack of knowledge at sea in the people of continent. They were well versed in how to win war in land. They were army, not navy.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Saturday, February 10, 2007

Cheers

Cheers (Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.11 0:31 (#17962858) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.10 1:12)
Cheers to your frontier spirit!
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Friday, February 09, 2007

Eight-eyed Eel

Re:No, not really(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 22:11 (#17946910) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.09 5:09)
Thank you very much for correcting my journal. I was not sure whether I was right, now I know I had confused. Have you ever heard about eight-eyed eel? Here is the link.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

My Evolution

Re:How so?(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 21:28 (#17946656) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.09 5:09)
Marxist Hacker, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I was not supposed to be in a hurry after I got your remark. Apparently you are right. Entire argument here are about evolution( theory). And we are talking about how evolution occurs(method). I raised it's because of natural selection, and natural selection is a method how they evolves. So I have to correct my expression -Their design is not a result of evolution.as 'Their design is not a result of 'adjustment'. Because I was talking about how evolution occurs -by natural selection, adjustment, need or need not, etc.
Thanks for pointing out.
Many years ago I happened to read an article in Japanese in which the author -biologist concluded that we ought to believe evolution occurs not as aresult of adaptation, but natural selection by referring to a similar example as I raised. I felt very questionable, and now I realised the author of the article was wrong. Evolution occurs from various methods including natural selection, adjustment, need or need not, and it's just very silly for us to seek for only one method.
Through our talk, I was able to clarify the puzzle I had caught. That's my evolution.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Thursday, February 08, 2007

Normal Step

Re:Well, maybe.(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 4:57 (#17938014) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.09 4:25)
All children might be autistic somehow, but it's not a disease. This is just a normal step to adulthood.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Evolution Or Natural Selection?

Re:How so?(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 4:44 (#17937850) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.09 4:25)
Evolution is a result of adjustment. Natural selection is the result of survial of the fittest. Evolution is a positive result of the living, while natural selection is a negative result of the living. Evolution is biological, natural selection is social. Evolution occurs in a long period often at sudden change of hereditary information -DNA, etc., natural selection occurs in a relatively short period in accordance to the change of environment.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Experimental Market

Re:I live in an interesting area(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 2:48 (#17936190) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.08 7:11)
Here in Japan two cities are chosen, many new products were introduced first in these two cities. If they made success, they are going to sell nationwide. Two cities are Kumamoto, whose population is 600 thousand, and Sapporo, whose population is 2 million.
If seven different regions were chosen taking many different aspects into consideration, the results must be very reliable.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Kokkos

Re:Roasted Cacao Beans ALSO have caffine(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 2:32 (#17935968) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.08 7:11)
Cacao, cocoa, chocolate, coffee, coca...all related? I didn't know that, it's very interesting.
I found in my dictionary that Greek word 'kokkos' means 'berry'. The substance that found in these berries must be similar.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Caffeine

Re:Caffeine(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 1:46 (#17935434) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.08 7:11)
The coke they made contained caffeine twice as much as American Cokes. They started selling it in such catchphrase. If we took caffeine in moderate quantity, it must have worked well. I believe caffeine neither stimulate nor relieve our nerves excessively. Caffeine just coordinates our body balance well.
I drink a cup of coffee not only after waking up, sometimes before going to sleep. I sleep well.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Deez Nuts

Re:Not exactly(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.09 1:24 (#17935134) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.08 7:11)
Judging from the reference you showed, German troops might have been unable to realise that they were surrounded by the rest of the world including the US after they surrounded the US troops on the spot ie Bastogne. Therefore the word 'deez nuts' made sense -we are bigger &stronger than you.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Meaning Of Nuts

Re:Not exactly(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.08 6:38 (#17926228) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.08 5:03)
I remember the scene in a movie that I watched in my youth- before crossing fire Germans sent a herald to an American counterpart demanding a surrender without fighting. The reply was 'Nuts'. Many years ago the language skill of translator was not enough to meet. The superimposed terop had translated very literally something similar to walnuts or pecans. I felt perplexed, as Germans did.
Many year later I found the word nuts means crazy, stupid etc. I thought that's it.
Now I understand the word nuts that was used in Bastogne meant much stronger than crazy, let alone mixed nuts. One word gains more meaning as time goes inside myself.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

The Frenzy Of Love

Re:Layla and Majnun (Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.08 3:47 (#17923978) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.06 20:54)
The frenzy of love sometimes leads to the state similar to madness. If two lovers can't see for a while they always think the other while they are away. It was not just two or three times as if I became mad when the feeling of missing is about to overwhelm my sense.
Then when they are together they always spend all their time, they sometimes lose sight of surroundings. They sometimes concentrate on their love affairs night and day, and night.
For these several months I've been spending our holidays together so similar to such a madness.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Saturday, February 03, 2007

Common Recognition Of History

Re:I love History(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.04 3:45 (#17874900) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.03 3:10)
Unlike other sciences, history is not based on an objective truth. History can be distorted at its extremity if a deviser of history ignores matters that are unfavourable for him and picks up only favourable events.
All teachers are unavoidably liable to becoming a lier if they had to use only such distorted textbooks. All teachers need to introduce not only one view but also other views aside from what those textbook say as to one historical event. We will be able to form some common recognition of history through exchanging different views as to one event.
James Loewen's book is worth reading, thanks for referring.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

History

Re:My favorite history quote(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.04 3:17 (#17874696) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.03 3:10)
History consists of the endless combination of cause and result, so it's not permissable for us to utter the word 'if'. If there hadn't been such events, the world might have changed a lot. et.al..Those sound meaningless in a study of history.
We usually have to assume what really occurred from past records both in bibliographical and archaeological ways. If we only rely on bibliographical study in deciding what really occurred, we might be misled. Because those descriptions are often subjuct to being rewritten later. Archaeological evidence helps us to determine what really occurred. But unfortunately lack of evidence in archaeology does not prove that there were no such events in the past.
We have nothing for it but to construct generally what history is from what really occurred in the past refering to lots of bibliographical study and archaeological evidence. In short, history is neither to condemn nor deny, it is but to understand.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters

Thursday, February 01, 2007

Bible Education

Re:Daniel was a prophet(Score:2)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2007.02.02 2:18 (#17845564) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2007.02.01 2:09)
I think what lacks in Japan's education is a Bible study. In my younger days I read a lot in humanities. However I had no chances of reading a Bible systematically. Now I'm reading Book of Hosea, I think I need to comprehend what Bible says from various perspectives. I am about to manage to stand at the starting point that Westerners stood in their youth.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters